NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/lang/c++-part2/11792

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 3.7 KB

Path: keats.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Kazimir Kylheku)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada
Date: 15 Mar 1996 21:40:40 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4icja9$[e-mail]> <4idh80$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: keats.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca

In article <4idh80$[e-mail]>,
Peter Seebach <[e-mail]> wrote:
 >In article <4icja9$[e-mail]>,
 >Jay Martin <[e-mail]> wrote:
 >>>Lex and Yacc are proven utilities that work.
 >
 >>Lex and Yacc are braindead crap along with C and Unix.  Do they have an
 >>option to output Ada??
 >
 >Huh?  I'm sorry, but you have *no* argument here.  Lex and Yacc are brilliant;
 >they do *exactly* what they're supposed to do.  What problems do you see
 >with them?  (Reply by email, please, this is even less topical than usual.)
 >
 >Sure they have an option to output Ada.  It's the one you're about to write,
 >if it's so useful.  I have no need for it, so I'm not about to.  It could
 >be done, of course - it's just not currently needed.  :)
 >
 >>You have become and "idiot savant" at it, congratulations,
 >>unfortunately the next guy might not reading your code. I wasn't
 >>talking about needing a grammer, I was talking with about reading in a
 >>simple table.  Its stupid to bring in two tools with two more
 >>"languages" to do something trivial that takes a page of normal code.
 >
 >Very few people would bring in yacc for just reading a table.  I personally
 >would.  My table parser would also support simple expression grammars.  Could
 >you do that in a page of normal code, too?  (Of course you could; you'd
 >use perl, and call eval.)

I do too. I recently wrote a configuration file parser for a daemon I
was hired to develop. Right now, it has a brain-dead syntax. However, it is
robust with respect to comments and whitespace and deals with ".." strings,
integer constants and identifiers properly.

I used error productions in the yacc grammar to generate useful, friendly error
messages that pinpoint a problem.

I anticipate that the grammar will get more complicated when I add certain
features; the parser/scanner will be a snap to update, compared to having to
understand my own code. :)

I didn't want to waste time writing this thing. I wanted a configuration file
facility, NOW! Lex and yacc gave it to me, in minutes. And hey, regular
expressiona and grammars _are_ more fun than switch() statements with numeric
case labels... so punish me for enjoying the ``journey'' for its own sake!
I'm glad I like my work!

 >Like all tools, lex and yacc are excellent for some tasks, and useless
 >for others.  I can only assume you've been trying to use them for
 >inappropriate tasks, or more likely, that you haven't ever used them,
 >and that you're not familiar with C, either.  You've posted many
 >claims, with *no* documentation, *no* examples, and *no* rationale.

That trick allows an author to retreat infinitely without admitting he is
wrong, because there is no wall to back into.  ``But I never said this or
that...''. Of course not. Didn't say a damn thing, in fact.  Without the
documentation, examples and whatnot, it is just *.advocacy fluff.

 >Most Ada advocates at least have points to make; you, sir, are a discredit
 >to Ada users.  Hmph.  "rabid language fanatics" indeed.

On the contrary, I don't think he discredits anyone but himself.  I'd hate to
think that someone would consider some random C/UNIX fanatic to be a discredit
to _me_.  (Unless I _am_ that fanatic, of course :).
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